m.ludo
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IDE HDD not recognized by Win 11 ?

Hello eveyone,

We have here a (almost brand new, got it hardly 2 months ago) Win11 computer; that is running UEFI.

We wanted to increase the storage capacity (base HDD is SDD SATA and is not far from full) (as you can see in the enclosed picture), have an empty IDE hard disk drive (WD), an IDE disk controller card.
Built the one and the other in.
Controller card is apparently recognized - but not the disk. (see picture)

screenshot 2023-04-08 161602

I tried a different setting within the UEFI bios (--> legacy), that didn't work.

Live system CD gparted recognized the WD HDD alright. Tried formating the disk with a gpt partition table, that didn't work.

Strangely, another IDE hard disk (also WD), non-empty for containing a Debian 11 OS was recognised within the UEFI bios; it was even booted and started, but not till the end (probably too much too new proprietary hardware on the new computer).

So here I stand and I cant go further...

Why is it that a certain hard disk drive can#t be recognized by this Win 11 ?

If anyone could help I would be very pleased.

I f you need any further information please ask.

Best regards and thanks very much for your help.

Ludo

Content-Key: 6693049429

Url: https://administrator.de/contentid/6693049429

Printed on: June 16, 2024 at 05:06 o'clock

Member: Lochkartenstanzer
Lochkartenstanzer Apr 08, 2023 at 18:10:17 (UTC)
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Moin,

IDE is very old legacy hardware. I don't think that actual hardware supports your IDE drive. Can you just tell us wich hardware you use (Motherboard, SSD-Model, etc.).

lks
Member: Crusher79
Crusher79 Apr 08, 2023 at 18:39:49 (UTC)
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Well. Very hard. So usual I would check jumper settings too. Master / slave or stand alone.

But your live environment works with this HD - isn't it?

Have you connected all devices? Same setup as with windows 11?

I would check master / slave settings on each IDE disk. Set one to master and the other to slave. Do not remove the jumper. This would set the device in standalone mode as well I think.

Greets Crusher
Member: m.ludo
m.ludo Apr 08, 2023 at 19:27:28 (UTC)
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Hello Lochkartenstanzer & Crusher79,

And thanks for taking some of your time.

SATA HDD is "SPCC Solid State Drive 512GB";
motherboard is "ASUS MB0D20".

We've only been using one single IDE HDD connected to the IDE controller card at any time, so it is set as master (it was the only IDE disk on its channel, actually it was the only IDE disk at all). Even when we checked and compared with the other extra disk (which was not originally meant to be used, for it has a functional Linux Debian on it, which was working on another computer), that too was a standalone set as master.
But I'll check setting IDE HDD as stand alone (---> "CS/cable select").

And yes: with live system CD gparted each one of the two disks was recognized.
During these 4 tests (combination of Win11 or gparted live with empty IDE disk or Debian IDE disk) we didn't do anything with hardware than just plug cables (IDE and molex) in and out.

I'll let you know about the stand alone. Let me know if you have any other ideas...

Cheers!

Ludo
Member: m.ludo
m.ludo Apr 08, 2023 at 19:52:32 (UTC)
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Hello there again,

So the result of the test with setting the jumper on "cable select" is: nothing changed!
Although the IDE HDD (that with a functional Debian GNU Linux installed on it) is recognized by the UEFI BIOS (and the Debian on it will boot), it is not recognized by Windows 11 !!!...

Probably the reason why this other disk is recognized by the UEFI BIOS is that the Debian Linux on it is already UEFI compatible, whereas the other empty disk was completely formatted because we thought Win 11 would need something clean to work with...

I'd like to know what microschrott engineers went thinking about again...

I'll stay tuned and remain keen on reading what you all think about it, and if you think of any tweaks that might work in our case...

Cheers and let's keep it up!

Ludo
Member: Crusher79
Crusher79 Apr 08, 2023 at 20:02:46 (UTC)
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Hello.

Well cable select should fit your needs if you use a Ultra ATA cable. This allows the cable to select if the drive is master or slave based on the position on the cable.

But here is the question. How many ports provides the ide controller? Did you use an ultra ATA cable as mentioned above?

In the past you could enable or disable ide disk drive in BIOS. What about your additional ide controller? Is the ide drive listed correctly? Moreover, it could be possible to enter ide controller's BIOS by pressing a key. You maybe can apply additional settings.

On the other hand ide was successfully recognized from your live environment. That blows my mind.

I can't figure out if there are any limitations with windows 11.

As @Lochkartenstanzer mentioned ide drive a very old. You will only be able to increase storage size. But keep in mind that data transfer is slow. Background processes like anti-virus on such a device may lead to performance impacts.

There is a risk that you may loose data, too. Nothing last forever. what is the manufacturing date of the disk? Even if it was not in charge, it is strongly recommend to check the status of the disk with tools.

Greets Crusher
Mitglied: 110135
110135 Apr 09, 2023 at 04:38:57 (UTC)
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Hi,

Is It visible in the disk Management or diskpart (List disk, List volume)?

BR
Florian
Member: Crusher79
Crusher79 Apr 09, 2023 at 05:55:48 (UTC)
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Zitat von @110135:

Hi,

Is It visible in the disk Management or diskpart (List disk, List volume)?

BR
Florian

Obviously not. As he described the second IDE device is not shown. Just take a look at the screenshot of device manager.
Mitglied: 110135
110135 Apr 09, 2023 at 06:10:20 (UTC)
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Zitat von @Crusher79:

Zitat von @110135:

Hi,

Is It visible in the disk Management or diskpart (List disk, List volume)?

BR
Florian

Obviously not. As he described the second IDE device is not shown. Just take a look at the screenshot of device manager.

Good Point. That makes It Even harder :/
Member: Crusher79
Crusher79 Apr 09, 2023 at 06:17:21 (UTC)
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Zitat von @110135:

Good Point. That makes It Even harder :/

Yes. Strange. As he pointed out it seems to work with a live environoment and a secode IDE disk works fine with Windows 11. Only 1 drive dosen't appear in device manager. Not bootalbe would bei fine: GPT? UEFI? But in his case it's like "blocked" unter Windows 11. Very strange.
Member: cykes
cykes Apr 09, 2023 at 07:54:06 (UTC)
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Hi,

could you give a bit more details on the hardware in use? E.g. I can't find any references to the Motherboard you mentioned
ASUS MB0D20
Maybe some pictures would help to shed some light on it or at least a link to the system.
The type of CPU and Chipset in use might be helpful, too.
What kind of controller card (manufacturer, exact model) is in use?

It might be even a lower level problem, for the SATA SSD to work, BIOS/UEFI is set to AHCI Mode and the IDE controller card tries to "plug" in between that and does not support AHCI.

Maybe the controller card has jumpers on it to set certain compatibility levels with. Is the card PCI or PCIe? Maybe you even need drivers for the card to work properly.

But as mentioned before, all that will be very time consuming and the performance of that very poor. I would not recommend using IDE disks with newer PCs.

Cheers

cykes
Member: m.ludo
m.ludo Apr 09, 2023 updated at 14:50:00 (UTC)
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Hello everyone,

Thanks for your interest!

This is the motherboard :
20210716_124617_small
I found another designation for this ASUS board : P8H61-M LX2

Indeed, it blows my mind as well. I started as a "young" user on windows - moving on to Linux, for more freedom and hardware usability... and didn't think an illogical incompatibility of this kind could show up...

But that windows would become so ... weird !?!?... I was wondering if it had to do with that preinstallation thing: does a pre-installed win11 come along with lack of flexibility at a certain level ... ?...

We have decided to keep the IDE HDD which has been recognized by UEFI BIOS installed; we will check if there is any jumper setting on the controller card. Then we will check UEFI BIOS for the umpteenth time...

Thanks for your attention and interest.
We'll keep you informed.

Best regards.

Ludo
Member: cykes
cykes Apr 09, 2023 at 15:11:27 (UTC)
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Hi,

the Asus P8H61-M LX2 is about 10++ years old. It's Chipset is designed for Gen2/Gen3 Core i Socket 1155 processors.
Can't imagine that you bought this "brand new". Out of the box this )motherboard and CPU) type is not compatible with Windows 11, you can only use a modified installation image to make it working.

Native Windows 11 needs at least a Gen8 CPU/Chipset.

The UEFI BIOS on that board might even be buggy. Latest BIOS available is of 2013.
Drivers go up to Windows 8.1.

Is there any reason you bought this (very old) Mainboard?

cheers

cykes
Member: m.ludo
m.ludo Apr 09, 2023 at 15:18:28 (UTC)
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Hi again everyone,

The IDE controller card is a SD-SIL680 :
s-l1600-small

As one can see, there is a "jp2" setting (top right side), but I can't remember to have ever had a jumper on it.
I'll check if I can find on the internet what it is for (no manual for this card here).

See you later...

Ludo
Member: cykes
cykes Apr 09, 2023 updated at 15:33:20 (UTC)
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The IDE controller card is a SD-SIL680

Here's the manual to that one: https://www.lindy.co.uk/downloads/51110.pdf

JP2 is the HDD LED (busy) connector. Do not shorten those face-smile

You may have to check the ressources in BIOS for that PCI card. The better/easier solution would be to use a SATA HDD.

Maybe the IDE HDD works if you wipe it completely (e.g. writing zeros on it with Linux) and afterwards using Windows to put a GPT partition table on it.

But again that will be utterly slow.

Greets

cykes
Member: Crusher79
Crusher79 Apr 09, 2023 at 15:34:06 (UTC)
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Zitat von @m.ludo:

Hi again everyone,

The IDE controller card is a SD-SIL680 :
s-l1600-small

As one can see, there is a "jp2" setting (top right side), but I can't remember to have ever had a jumper on it.

Good idea. Needs further investigation.

As you may know some people don't like Windows 11. So you could try it with Windows 10?

Lots of recovery systems base on windows PE. So that would be the quickest way to check compatibility. It might work. Depends on windows driver collection. Most of current hardware is fully supported by Windows 10.

Nearly the same procedure as with Linux live environment.

Good luck.
Member: mayho33
mayho33 Apr 09, 2023 at 22:36:54 (UTC)
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I don't think W11 is supporting IDE as bootable Device. But not sure for 100%.
Member: m.ludo
m.ludo Apr 10, 2023 at 13:25:16 (UTC)
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Hi everyone,

Quote from @cykes:
JP2 is the HDD LED (busy) connector. Do not shorten those face-smile

No, we didn't (we found that information as well)!

Quote from @mayho33:

I don't think W11 is supporting IDE as bootable Device. But not sure for 100%.

Quote from @cykes:

But again that will be utterly slow.

We don't even mind those two aspects:
- we do not want to boot from that drive;
- that drive should just be for short time help, for moving data that is not required on a regular basis.

But we think we have another solution: use a direct adapter of this kind:
710xsbl1cyl._ac_sl1200_small

Then we might be able to use that IDE HDD (or the other) as a SATA HDD for short time help...

And if that doesn't work, then we'll find something uglier (we'll get one of these SDXC cards that we got - we just want to rid the SATA HDD of some useless data...)
face-wink)

Thanks for your help and support.

Let's keep up the good spirit.

Ludo
Member: naYssOne
naYssOne Apr 13, 2023 updated at 13:42:46 (UTC)
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hello Ludo,

...as already mentioned above : the problem is the hardware :
especially drivers for that ide-adapter card are not to find for windows 11. the highest supported drivers you can find at windows catalog are supporting server 2003 and windows 8.1 - so you probably won't find drivers, that allow you to use the drive on a 'native' way directly via the card.
BUT you need drivers for the card, or it is as it is right now.

-> for reference : https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=silicon+image+068 ...

its uses a silicon sil 0860 chipset - Silicon Image SiI 0680 ATA/133 (RAID / Medley Raid) Controller driver, latest updated driver known from Q3 in 2009...

maybe you also should seriously consider to generally update the used hardware in that case : mobo, ide card and so on... its really outdated and you will get / find maybe some more incompatibilities with modern software (not only windows 11...)

in my opinion there are these possibilities :
- try the IDE-SATA adapters you posted (I hope, that works - but I don't believe it - unless you tell me, that this combination (adapter cascaded by an adpater) is really working...
- buy a new (meaning : an other) ide adapter card which provides supporting drivers for your os
- fastest solution : set up a windows 8.1 (x64) machine which is used alone for this usecase (but's is somewhat a security risk)
- or maybe copy the data to any other usable type of drive (sd-card ? ...and plug them onto / into the server...)

I had a similar problem with my (old) raidcontroller (promise fasttrak tx4650), but they are supported by server 2008 r2 and windows 7 (latest driver update in 2011), so I could use these drivers to get the card working with windows 11. But not to mention how to do the bios update - to get support for drives larger than 2TB (via floppy using windows 98 se recovery disk and console... very looooooong time ago I did this last time that way... face-smile ...)
But now it works...

btw : windows 11 natively doesn't support ide-drives anymore... afaik

good luck and best wishes !
naYssOne
Member: m.ludo
Solution m.ludo May 01, 2023 at 09:28:49 (UTC)
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Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the help you gave us.

We finally got hold of two SDXC memory cards, and moved that way the data around that was required to make more space ... and finally all went the way we wanted.

Goal achieved, and that is the most important.

For sure, you are right those pieces of hardware are old stuff, and surely, we are not using them on a daily basis. It's only in these situations that one finds out the - technical - times they are a-changing...
face-wink

Best regards to all

Ludo